Cutting Through Chaotic Markets with Seth Weissman, Founder and Managing Partner, Urban Standard Capital

Managing partner Aaron Strauss sits down with Seth Weissman, founder and managing partner of Urban Standard Capital (“USC”). The Goldman Sachs and Perry Capital alum takes listeners through his career journey, lessons learned, and the steps he took to build USC into a fully integrated real estate private equity firm managing over $600 million in real estate equity and debt investments. 

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Transcript

A.Y. STRAUSS: Hello, everyone. Welcome to “The Dealmakers Edge”. This is our first podcast recording in 2024. So we started off a little bit late, but we're here with the one and only Seth Weissman, who is the founder and president of Urban Standard Capital—“USC”—a fully-integrated real estate private equity firm focused on debt and equity investments across the U.S. The firm manages over $600 million of AUM [in] real estate equity and debt investments across its platforms. Prior to founding USC, Seth worked in the real estate private equity group of Perry Capital, a multi-strategy hedge fund. Prior to that, he was a member of Goldman Sachs’ investment banking team and Seth earned a BS in Economics from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. And Seth has been featured in The New York Times, The New York Post, New York Magazine, and other leading publications, and has done a lot of public speaking too, whether [at the] Pratt Institute, UBS, Enterprise Community Partners, and Deutsche Bank. [He] also does a lot of good in the community. Seth previously served on Community Board 4 (Chelsea and Hell's Kitchen); he’s a member of both the Preservation and Planning Committee and the Housing, Health, and Human Services Committee; and he's the founder of Real Estate Has Your Back, which provides support for communities in need throughout Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. Seth, I'm really glad you're here. I'm excited to lead the conversation with you today, and just want to thank you for being here. 

Seth Weissman: Well, thank you for having me. I'm honored to be your first guest of the new year. So I appreciate that and I look forward to this conversation. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Awesome. And we've interacted with your team. We've seen some of your culture, we've seen the business you've grown and how you conduct yourself, and it's a Class A, first-class organization. You should be very proud of everything you've done. And what I like to do for the benefit of the listeners is sort of to bring it back so somebody can imagine themselves being successful in the industry. And we don't have to go too far back, but maybe we could talk about, where you grew up and college years and getting that first position, and then we go from there perhaps?

Seth Weissman: Sure. Absolutely. I appreciate the kind words about our organization. It's been a lot of fun to build over the years. And I'm excited about where we are today and what the future holds. Going back in time—I just turned 40, so I've been reflecting a lot recently—but going back, I grew up in Westchester, just outside the city and I was always interested in real estate, mostly starting with design and architecture. I remember doing a project when I was in middle school. It was a career day type of project where you were supposed to interview somebody or some profession you thought would be of interest. And there was a project near our home. It was a single family home, and I thought I wanted to be an architect at the time and so I reached out to that architect and met with them. And he said, "You don't want to be an architect." My 12-year-old self said, "Oh, really? Why is that? I did not expect that response." He said, "Well, one, it's a very volatile profession financially. It really goes with economic cycles. And two, and more importantly, you don't control the decisions. The owner or the developer does." The natural question was, “Well, tell me more about what that role is.” And, so it was a good early lesson. I do still focus on design and all our projects and it's a personal area of interest. But, ultimately [it] led to the development and owner and ultimately credit side of the business. But yeah, it started with an interest in design and architecture at an early age and has morphed over time into more of the development and finance side.

A.Y. STRAUSS: That's terrific. And that design and architecture interest, call it what you will, [is] super critical to understand the bricks you're either lending on or buying, et cetera. And probably if it brings you great joy…it gives you [more] passion [] in the industry than somebody who's just looking at only the financial aspects. I think it's great. 

Seth Weissman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think when—whether it's being on the equity side or the debt side—when we're really thinking about the end product that's being delivered to the consumer. Is that a house? Is it an apartment building? Is it condos? Is it an office building or retail experience? We want to make sure that our clients—if they're borrowers—or us as developers are thinking through what that end-user experience is like and how you can create value through design. Whether it's layouts and flow and portion and what have you and overall programming, [design is] fundamental to the success of the real estate. And we've seen projects that have gone sideways because they missed on those fundamentals. So we're… 

A.Y. STRAUSS: I know you do very careful underwriting and I’m sure that certainly helps—to envision the end-product all the way from conception to the end as well. You went to Penn; fantastic school. You knew you wanted to get into real estate when you went to Wharton or you decided you want to have more of a generic background or…what was your thinking at that age?

Seth Weissman: Yeah. So, I was an unusual kid in that I knew I wanted to go to Wharton when I was like in fifth grade or sixth grade. So that was my…[A.Y. STRAUSS: (laughs) “One of those, one of those.”]…I was super cool that I knew I wanted to go to work in business school. But you know, I was fortunate to get in. I went there and of course had an interest in real estate, as I've mentioned. But what really accelerated my interest was they had a program for underclassmen, for freshmen and sophomores where you would, as an underclassman, get exposure to the most [] famous professors. And it was a series, I think, of one-hour lunches over a semester—probably six or seven lunches. And I got into one with a gentleman named Peter Linneman, who is a very prominent real estate mind, and I loved his discussion seminar. I mean, one thing he said that resonated, which was, “Every building you walk by has a history and a story. It has a personal story. It has a business story. Why was it built? How was it reimagined? What the current state of that property is.” And that was a pretty cool concept. And I was really drawn to the industry and to him. And ultimately, [I] actually ended up being his TA for his finance class as I moved through school. But I ended up majoring in real estate and in finance. I had a double major and real estate at Wharton has its own, like, complex. It's a pretty serious major there. A lot of real estate folks have come out of that school. So I was very fortunate. I ended up going into investment banking post-college at Goldman. We covered industrial companies of which homebuilders were included. That was a great experience to be 21 in New York City. Obviously, you're working long hours, but you're learning from the best of the best and getting exposure and sort of absorbing as much as possible. I wanted to switch from the advisory side to the principal investing side. So from there, post the analyst program, moved over to a multi-strategy hedge fund slash private equity fund called Pertu Capital, where I was in their real estate group. And I ended up going there because Peter Linneman was friends with the guys that ran the book and they were hiring. That connection or introduction is what brought me over. I love the experience at Perry. We were part of a larger…at the time, I think it was a $15 billion hedge fund. The real estate book was small relative to the overall fund. I think it was maybe $500 million. But there was a small team of eight of us and it was a great way to get more exposure to direct investing on the principal side. And I really loved that experience but had known in my heart of hearts I wanted to do something entrepreneurial. In middle school, going back to…or high school—going  back to being a nerdy kid--I had started an entrepreneurs club in my school, which, you know, was just sort of a vessel, if you will, for me to explore my interest in entrepreneurship. I had a lot of speakers that would come to our high school and talk about their experience. I had an opportunity to spend time with those folks. And also we had our own sort of mini-businesses we would create in the high school. My favorite was that you couldn't go off campus unless you were a junior or senior, if I remember correctly, and we would go buy McDonald's as juniors or seniors, bring it back to campus, double the price, and sell it to the students [] that couldn't leave campus. And it was very successful. And we couldn't keep the profits as a school club, right? But what we did is we just gave the money either to local not for-profits or we gave it to other clubs to further their respective missions. But it was a lot of fun. And we had five or six versions of that where we got to sort of express our entrepreneurial spirits. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: That's outstanding. And I guess it was, you were prescient because you knew you were going to go into a good yield business, [the] bridge space later on. You're like, I may as well maximize returns. That's a great story. 

Seth Weissman: People can't leave. They're stuck. They have no choice. I like the dynamics of that. Right now in the lending market where there's not a lot of lenders who are active, and I can't say we're doubling the price, but we definitely have more leverage on our side than historically.

A.Y. STRAUSS: Absolutely. Yes, scarcity creates that value for you. But let's go back to 2015, which is I believe the year you launched USC, right? So you already had great mentors, great exposure, great understanding of sort of economic fundamentals, and some real experience at the hedge fund and at Goldman. 2015: what does it look like? How do you decide it was the time to start your own shop? What did it look like day one? Did you have partners? Did you have a team member [on] day one or just? Why that time and how was it in the early dawn?

Seth Weissman: You know, at the time I was in my [] mid-twenties. On the one hand you can argue, okay, [] there's always more experience you want to have, which is totally true. But I feel like you could have endless amount of experience and still not be ready. And I always felt that you could sort of bring in partners or professionals to support the lack of experience in certain specialties. But what was nice is that I had no dependents (laughs) at the time. So that also makes the risk a little, a little more manageable when you known you're not rolling the dice with children at home to feed. So I think that was sort of my mindset. I was like, “all right, I have the experience and I'm going to go for it. Let's go for it.” I was definitely naive about what it meant, especially to raise capital. And I remember, putting together a list of every person I thought could write a $20 or $25 [or] $50,000 check and [spending time at] breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffees, spending time with people to hear how they thought about risk and return and just sort of building my database of perspective capital partners. I was naive but I had also really benefited at Perry where they managed billions of dollars, right? And so when the investment team would approve an investment and I'd walk across the floor of the GM Building to say, "Okay. Approved. Fire the $20-$30 million”… or whatever it was. I knew that money had been raised from various institutions and other capital partners, but I had not had that direct experience. So it was eye-opening to be sitting there talking about an investment and hearing how different people again, think about risk and return. I really like that process. I still like it. I know it's not for everybody. Some people feel like they're being rejected when they're talking and pitching an investment. I look at it as more of an opportunity to learn and if it's not a fit for somebody, [then] understanding what they're looking for and noting it and then circling back if there's an opportunity there. But one thing I definitely always encourage younger entrepreneurs to do is to go through that process and have as many conversations as possible. Because especially—and maybe this is more of a New York thing—we sometimes see, or I sometimes see, folks who are…you want to buy a building or do a small development and they may have personal resources, family resources, and they don't need to go raise outside capital. And I always encourage people to do, even if they don't need to. Take 25 percent of the equity capital stack, [and] go raise money. And I encourage that for a couple of reasons. One, you can, and one can generally convince themselves of anything. (laughs) So to have that natural tension and pushback with other smart people, I think, is important. You get a different perspective. It challenges your assumptions. You don't have to listen to it, but I think it’s important to have. I remember when I started and it was myself, like, literally working out of a closet with a desk I built in the closet. It gets a little lonely at times, right? So I think it's nice to be able to have a sounding board and those can be LPs. And I have developed—over the years—great investors, ones who started with me [and] who I really value their advice and their perspective. And the other reason I encourage it is I think it's important to be a fiduciary, to manage somebody else's money, to have the weight of that responsibility. It’s something I take very seriously; the trust that somebody puts in you, and I think, on top of that, the process, right? I mean, you guys, as a law firm, you're drafting operating agreements and participation agreements and what have you. That's very important to understand and how to structure it, how to do it in a way that aligns interest and incentives and is fair. And the last part of that is once you've sort of broken bread with an investor and hopefully had a successful result, that makes it a million times easier to…

A.Y. STRAUSS: Oh yeah. 

Seth Weissman: …to go back. Right? And we've had investors who started with me with six-figure checks that are now eight-figure checks. Like big family offices that wanted to sort of dip their toe in the water and write a couple hundred thousand-dollar investment and now over $50 million with us. So you ‘gotta find a family office that can do that, that can scale that way. But you know, the point being that we have a lot of investors who we've grown with over time who have done …they’re one of the larger checks for multiple projects as well. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Amazing. I think that brief answer you gave right there is so critical for young entrepreneurs to hear today because it's a difficult equity environment, right? Generally speaking. Whether you're experienced, whether you have less experience it’s obviously harder. But I know a lot of people now trying to buy their first property, trying to scale their own companies. And, they need to hear that it's doable and it's achievable and it's bit-by-bit and you grow along with your investors and you just need a few to get started. And that weight of responsibility you mentioned, taking other people's capital, that's a sign of maturity of business. And if you have that mentality and outlook, you are a trusted fiduciary. If you don't feel like you can raise, then you shouldn't raise. Another thing you mentioned which I think was really spot on is, by forcing yourself to raise that capital, you have people pouring over every aspect of the deal in a way you couldn't envision. It's the difference almost between buying a deal all-cash, sounds great, but having a lender, lender's counsel, a lender, they're going to rip it apart (laughs) and they're going to make you focus on things that perhaps your rose-colored glasses might've missed. So that was a fantastic outline of just a snapshot of starting and I know a lot of people listening will appreciate that. 

Maybe we'll fast forward a little bit. I think what's unique about USC, I mean, there's a lot of things unique about it of which I probably don't even know many, but, I know you're focused on the debt side very heavily today. You've expanded a tremendous amount. Obviously your roots are in New York City and your office is headquartered in New York City. You've done some more out of state deals, et cetera, but you also have a lot of experience on the equity side. And I think what's cool about your business is that the equity investing informs you're underwriting analysis of making a loan because you can understand what it would be to operate that property. Maybe you could talk about that? How you've sort of mixed and matched those two complementary aspects of the business, sort of, to ride cycles around those aspects.

Seth Weissman: Sure. Absolutely. As you mentioned, we have a deep equity platform here. That's where I started the business; buying real estate in New York City. I think as a philosophy and investment philosophy, we're very focused on probabilities and scenario analysis and evaluating within a range of outcomes what is the likelihood of the drivers of those outcomes? And so, our transition over the years to be more credit focused is because we like this sort of risk-reward more on the credit side than on the equity side. I'm sort of aware enough to look back—and this goes back 10+ years—on our early equity investments coming out of the Great Financial Crisis and, not benefiting, frankly, from the run-up in the recovery. And that covered probably a lot of mistakes that were also made, right? I think one of the challenges that operators and developers run into is that they're inherently optimistic people, right? You don't go buy or build buildings if you think the world's crashing down, right? So you always have a rosy outlook, which can be dangerous. And I think the best developers and our borrowing partners provide the range of outcomes and understand the key variables that are going to drive those outcomes. And if awareness is critical, (laughs) and then the next layer of it is what's the risk? What's the risk mitigant? What's the likelihood of those outcomes? And so on the equity side, our transition to start doing more credit things, at least for New York City, right? And this is now again going back 10 years. I didn't love the potential upside coming in to equity investments. Not that I like foresaw the lack of disappearance of 421A or rent regulation in 2019, but cap rates had been significantly compressed and the market in those asset prices didn't allow a lot of room for error. And so I'm just not a believer in assuming everything is going to go well. I’m probably more of a credit guy in perspective generally, and as a firm is understanding downside. Our capital base is family offices, foundations, insurance companies, pension funds. These are already people who either have money or want to keep the money. They're focused in investing through us to earn safe, consistent doubles. This is not VC investing where you're either going to earn five X your money or ten X your money, or you're going to get nothing back. We're in the capital preservation, stay rich game. And so that lens is what we view, [and] how we view everything. And we felt that credit started to offer more of that dynamic, that favorable dynamic, than equity. But the fact that we've done as a firm probably close to 50 projects on the equity side—I think we still own maybe 25-30 of those buildings—that  gives us perspective and an equity lens that is really valuable when we're evaluating other sponsors’ projects. Because we've sat and we do sit in their seat. We can understand the decisions they're making. We can understand their GP-LP dynamics [and] what the alignments or misalignments in some cases could be. And we want to structure accordingly and have a very transparent conversation and understanding of those dynamics in a way that certainly, frankly, banks are not going to understand and most pure-play debt funds are not going to understand as well. So we really position ourselves on the lending side as a thoughtful, creative capital partner that's programmatic, right? And we leverage our team's experience on the equity side. I mean, there's 18 people at the company [and] eight people on the investment team. Everybody on the investment team has some equity experience. Some have heavier construction and development experience. Some have more retail or some of those subspecialties. But that's an important background to have and I think it makes us a stronger partner. And as a result, if you look at our overall business, I think as of the end of last year, over 70 percent of our clients were repeat clients and referrals. We closed a loan at the end of last year, and it was a $28 million loan in Long Island that was our 21st deal with that sponsor. And we have a lot of groups we've done 5, 10, 15 deals with, and we want to be, I'm 40, I want to be doing this for another, I don't know, for as long as I can. And I want to do 10, 20, 30 year deals with our partners. And part of that is making sure we believe in the business plan. We obviously have comfort and faith in their ability to execute. And I think that long-term perspective, versus a more transactional perspective, is critically important. I distinctly remember my first week of training at Goldman, and they talked about being long term and greedy. Don't try and make 25 cents today, if you can make 5 to 10 cents a year for the next 30 years, right? And build those long-term relationships. I think that's a good business model that also resonates with me personally, and it's really the ethos of our company, which is that we want to be that long-term, programmatic capital partner. And that's helped us grow the business. And we are fortunate with a private discretionary capital base that we have that flexibility. And in a world like today where, you know, I get calls all the time, a couple of times a week, “my bank left me at the closing table” or “they re-traded proceeds two weeks before we're about to close.” Very transactional, short-sighted decisions in my view. Everyone has their own dynamics. Like, we're no, post-Dodd-Frank especially, there's a variety of regulatory constraints that banks have. Obviously, banks are struggling to keep deposits and maintain their lending base. So I can appreciate it. But in my view, you always want to be upfront, transparent, or communicative. If you can't do a deal at those terms, don't issue the term sheet.

A.Y. STRAUSS: Really, really, well said. And that's a great overview. I hear it consistently from the best and brightest in the industry: “always strive to be relationship-focused, not transactional-focused”. Every deal has to make sense on its own merits in the four corners of the documents and deal. But you're living proof embodiment of that principle. Do right over a long period of time, making consistent decisions that are thoughtful and very forward-looking, and you'll reap the return later on. I think a lot of people, especially [it] tends to be younger people in general, because they haven't had an arc of experience oftentimes, [it’s]very tempting to make short-term, sort of, “maneuvers” or “grabs” if you will, that may enrich them in some way today but will hurt them later on. You see that again and again and again. And to your credit, and your company and some of the borrowers who we know mutually and such, you've really attracted well, a tremendous track record, deal flow, and obviously a touch point with these borrowers that's unique. It's not just business. There's something a little bit deeper there, which is, that relationship and that's really critical. 

Seth Weissman: I always tell this to our investors, right, when we're talking about like “why us” versus another debt platform and the alpha and the differentiating factors. Doing what you say you're going to do, being consistent, delivering communicative is like a differentiating factor, but it oddly is, right? I mean, even I remember as on the development and equity side of our business, you get a change order from a GC and maybe 50 percent of it was legitimate and 50 percent was garbage. And I would say to the contractor or the subcontractor, like, "Okay, I get it. The scope changed or material prices increased and I could hold this to you, but there's some fair compromise there. But if you think I'm not going to remember that 50 percent of that change order that's garbage, you're sorely mistaken." (laughs) So, I think you're right. Probably a younger mistake to make, but people make it, even people who've been in the industry a long time. I don't think it's ever good to burn bridges. We don’t want people to walk away—and I think you'll appreciate to this as an attorney—sometimes at the closing table and people are feeling stressed and what have you, and “I need a break on this legal fee” or “I need a break on this.” And we always try and work with somebody with the recognition that there's a longer-term relationship. And oftentimes a closing is the start of a relationship, right? And so you want to get off to a good start. But I think the approach where you're really thinking about yourselves as their partner and like, “okay, we could be doing this for another 20, 30, 40 years”, that perspective is important and it's differentiated. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Absolutely. And the culture you've built internally really projects that ethos from the top down. So you should be very, very proud of that. One question I want to ask you. You've rode a couple cycles now. You're sort capitalizing on this sort of golden age of private credit, right? The regional banks are out and thankfully you're not in a position where you're overly-burdened with legacy and you've had good underwriting and you're just primed and the reputation and all the things you've done correctly over all the years are coming to bear right now. I got to ask you, on the cycle stage, it seems like there may be some interesting equity opportunities coming up. Are you going to be looking for those? Are you going to sort of stay the course on the bridge lending platform—which  is doing fantastic? Or, just [] going to keep looking at everything in every given market.

Seth Weissman: We're definitely going to stay the course on the bridge lending platform. And that's also national for us, right? Whereas historically the equity stuff has been more New York-focused or entirely New York-focused. New York is not an easy place to be a developer and operator. I think they keep making it harder. Fortunately, they don't understand or so seemingly there's a lack of understanding of the housing supply part of the equation, but maybe they'll get there. I don't know. So I don't know how active we'll be in New York City equity investments directly. That being said, we do a lot of preferred equity. We are also doing a lot of more co-GP equity. So some of our developers that are, [or] have been clients of ours as borrowers, we've been talking to and quoting [] to purchase deals where we put up part of the GP and we're not in the driver's seat, right? But there are folks that we've worked with, we've seen how they execute, and we have comfort. And I do think there  are opportunities there. And now I think for 2023, it was pretty quiet [the] first half of the year because there just were a lot of legacy business plans that frankly didn't have solutions to the problems. And people will come to us [saying] “I need more money. I'm not willing to put in more money. The project’s moved sideways.” And I'm like, “okay, and then what? And then what happened?” It's like…(laughs)

A.Y. STRAUSS: Yeah. Well said. Yeah. I like the way you put that. That was very artful. “Legacy problems that have solutions which are challenged now.”  For sure. It's been a really, really wild ride [the] last couple of years and after COVID as well. And let's talk about the national expansion for a minute. I mean, obviously [you’re] New York-based. You've been testing different markets. I imagine some of it may be following borrowers you've had relationships with, perhaps. Some of them may be brand new. But you're really national now. And maybe we could talk about [whether that] was that an active decision to see other markets? Was it more borrowers pushing you to their new territories or a combination of both? Or do you want to do more national, out-of-state now versus more New York or just where the deals lead you, you want to be set to handle?

Seth Weissman: It's a great question. It was all borrower-driven. So New York, as I mentioned, not an easy place to do business. And I think a lot of clients going back certainly five if not ten years, made a very conscious decision to either grow or expand their investment activities outside of New York. I love New York. I have a lot of concerns for the State and the city generally as they make decisions that encourage capital to leave and encourage taxpaying citizens to leave. But that's above my pay grade, so I can only chirp here and there. But, as our borrowers move to other markets, they asked us to bring our lending program to those markets. And we think about our firm as much as a talent manager than anything else, right? So we are thinking about and looking for groups that are one: active, two: capable of execution, three: trustworthy and honest, and four:, frankly, pleasant to deal with because…just…life’s too short. I want to deal with people I enjoy spending time with. And because of that approach and philosophy, it was a natural way for us to go into other markets with people we had built relationships with in New York, and so we would expand. So we ended up doing deals in Texas because one of our Brooklyn borrowers was active there. Alabama because one of our Florida borrowers was active there. That's how we've really grown. We haven't said, "Oh, I like Nashville, so I'm going to go to Nashville." I mean, I like Nashville, but like it wasn't some master plan. It was really like, “let's go with people we trust.” Of course, diligence the market. But we're betting on smart operators and developers. So if they like Huntsville or they like Dallas or they like wherever it is they like, there's a reason for that. And again, like they're thoughtful people. So that's how we've expanded and we've started to build the team, build our West Coast business recently or last year, hired a gentleman there to build that practice out. We just closed our first loan in Washington State last week. We're closing another loan in California the next week or two. So that business continues to grow geographically. New York City is still probably 25 percent of the business. You know, I’d say the Northeast is probably 50 percent of the business. We have a mutual client that we're doing a large loan for in Connecticut. And I think that will always be a big part of what we do. Florida is a natural extension of that. And that's probably 20-25 percent of the business. But, the rest of the country makes up about the remaining quarter. I personally, one of the things I love about real estate is you get to go to different cities and get a different perspective and see how other parts of the world—or the country—operate and how people live. It's fascinating to me. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Yeah. No, it's great. And I love that organic growth. That's the way to handle it. It's not putting a pin down. It's again…that's a relationship-focused. Following people you know, like, and trust and have transacted with and have great relationships with… 

Seth Weissman: …Because if you're a new lender in a market, and you don't have that borrower, it's like, why am I seeing this deal? 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Exactly. (laughs)

Seth Weissman: You know? If like there's no real good reason that the guy in Phoenix is coming to me. Right? But if it's one of my clients who’s very active in that market, I know with assets is coming to me, that, at least, narrative [] passes the smell test. I'm aware enough to know what I don't know. And I see it in reverse where there's some West Coast lenders have come into New York and just gotten absolutely clobbered because they don't know the details and the nuance and the technicalities that can be decimating in New York if you don't know those details.

A.Y. STRAUSS: Absolutely. I have one more final question for you. And if you think I should have asked you something else that I didn't, feel free to add on to it as well. But we call the podcast "The Dealmaker's Edge" and we try to also touch on the mentality, the mindset it takes to run a successful firm like you're doing. Clearly you have the intellect and the fundamentals and the contacts and you know how to move the X's and O's. But a lot of this is tied to mindset. There are days in the industry, different markets. You went through COVID. You have super inflation. You have a ’23. You've got investors. You have so much cooking, and you have a personal life. What do you tell yourself on a day where things just go wrong? Everything goes wrong in this business. We have to work hard to make it right. But how do you sort of have that mindset, you know, talking to somebody who's building out their firm and going through a lot of the headaches you went through. What are you telling yourself on those tougher days that you're going to power through to get to the better ones?

Seth Weissman: Sure. So one thing [is] I'm like very mindful of how I spend my time. I have young kids. I want to make sure there's an allocation, if you will, (laughs) to spend time with them and quality time with them. And then when I'm working, I really make sure that I'm focused and concentrated on addressing whatever the task is at hand. It does get trying at times. Sometimes I think I’m as much a therapist—and I'm pretty sure you feel this way with some clients. You're trying to get them or us through a challenging dynamic. And it has not been a smooth last five years; certainly better for the credit side of the business than the equity side. But you know, sometimes you wake up and you feel like you're just getting punched in the face every day, especially in New York City real estate, right, where the rules change within minutes. I think the thing I try and keep in mind—and I'm a little bit fortunate that it's natural to me and it's comfortable for me—I’m not emotional. Like there's a problem…

A.Y. STRAUSS: …It’s a gift…

Seth Weissman: Yeah. Yeah. (laughs) There's probably some negatives that come with that. But I'm generally not emotional. This is the problem. These are the options to solve them. Those options may not…it may be worse [] than the next, unnecessarily good paths forward, but they're paths forward and it's a lot of “how do we block and tackle and get this to a resolution that is maybe not the ideal outcome, but is manageable and acceptable?” You know, freaking out is not really productive… (laughs) So…

A.Y. STRAUSS: …panicking, panicking not a good move? (laughs) 

Seth Weissman: So I got, “how do you deal with stress”, I'm like, “I don't know. Thoughtfully?” And there's a process for it. And we manage, I mean, generally because we concentrate on downside and risk and risk mitigants in our underwriting and who we're partners with, it fortunately doesn't come up, but it does come up, right? I mean we just got paid off on our last office loan that we did in Midtown West. Thank you. We did very well. It was devastating for our borrower, because—not that he's not smart. He’s a very smart person and [he] had a good business plan. This was an office building that was conceived as a business plan in 2019. So what are you going to do? And all you can do is make the best of it. So, I think to your question, we just push forward and we try and be analytical and thoughtful and not emotional. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Well said, Seth. I got to tell you, I've learned a lot from this conversation. I am very confident the listeners here will have learned a ton. It's been exciting to watch your growth [and] have some interactions as well. And again, I just really want to thank you for the time and the education you provided to a lot of people here. And hopefully it'll create some deal flow for you too. Because I think you're a first-class lender and a first-class team and hopefully some people will find the value to look you up and send you some deals. So, with that, I guess we'll wrap and again, I want to thank you for being on and looking forward to watching your continued success. 

Seth Weissman: Well, thank you again for having me. It's been a pleasure being on this and having this conversation. And it's also been a pleasure working with you and your team as well. So, I can't speak highly enough about you and your firm for anybody who's considering legal counsel. That's important because even if you're on the other side, you want somebody who has the interest of the project in their mind. And I think that's something that we look for. And I know you guys represent your clients with that spirit. So thank you. 

A.Y. STRAUSS: Yeah. Really, really appreciate that. Very, very thankful for that. Well, I guess we'll wrap and to be continued.

Seth Weissman: All right.